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> Огурец
сообщение 16.4.2007, 16:15
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г.Троицк, Красная Пахра, Москва.
Военно-историческая группа (XV):
Рота Св.Фомы

Репутация:   12  

Title of Work: Carrara Herbal

Author: Serapion the Younger, author; Filippo, Jacopo, scribe
Illustrator: -
Production: Italy (Padua); circa 1400
Language/Script: Italian translation from Arabic

Английским по белому написано - огурец. Неужели ж.Правда перевод с арабского - то есть регионально книга - арабская, а переводилась в Падуе.

Medieval and Ancient History of the Cucumber

by Ian of Oertha

The cucumber (or cowcumber) has a long and glorious history. The type familiar to North Americans (cucumis sativus) is only one of several varieties which have been eaten or used in medicine: other types include what Pliny called the "wild" cucumber (usually believed to be cucumis silvestris asininus), the Egyptian hairy cucumber (cucumis sate), and another variety, referred to by Pliny (the Elder) as the "Anguine or Erratic Cucumber" (I'm guessing; maybe the West India Cucumber, Cucumis Anguria?), the Sikkim cucumber (cucumis sativus var. sikkimensis, a Himalayan plant), and the squirting cucumber (ecballium elaterium).
According to Alphonse de Candolle (in "Origin of Cultivated Plants"), a 19th Century botanist of some repute, the cucumber originated in India at least 3,000 years ago this morning (heh heh). Since pickling food has been around that long, it is possible people enjoyed pickled cucumbers in ancient times (a relief; how could they do without?).
The Ancient Greeks and Romans spread the vegetable westward, and the Chinese spread the vegetable eastward. Tiberius Caesar was particularly fond of the cucumber, eating one every day of his life (in order to accomplish this, they were grown on carts, which could be kept inside when days were cool during the winter, and wheeled out into the sun; an early mobile greenhouse).
The cucumber is mentioned in Torah; one of the the oldest books in the Bible (Numbers 11:5) and in the book of Isaiah (1:. This probably refers to the hairy cucumber; the Numbers reference complains that they are no longer available for consumption (they had just fled Egypt), the Isaiah reference includes a description of cultivation (so, by that point, they were available).
The cucumber is mentioned in Sumerian writings, including certain proverbs ("Let Ishkur, god, king, split the fertile ground like a cucumber."), The Debate between Summer and Winter, and so on.
Pliny the Elder (an ancient Roman historian and naturalist) wrote of several remedies using cucumbers of various types in Book XX. These include the Wild Cucumber (26 remedies, including one called "elaterium"), the Cultivated Cucumber (9), and the Anguine or Erratic (5 remedies). Palladius, a Greek writer, included a flea-killing recipe that included cucumber seed (along with water, cumin, and psilotre or lupine). Both Theophrastus and Apicius mention cucumbers, Theophrastus describing 3 varieties, and Apicius being more concerned with the eating (and usage).
In medieval period manuscripts, you can find the cucumber mentioned in an herbal by Apuleis (MS Ashmole 1431, Bodleian Library, Oxford), apparently written between 1070 and 1100. The cucumber is mentioned (along with a method to keep "greene Cucumbers all the yeare") in Murrel's Two Books of Cookerie, 1638. It appears to be a method for pickling. It is also mentioned in "The Cooks Guide: Or Rare Receipts for Cookery, 1654" (another pickling reference). Sir Kenelm Digby (born 1603) writes of two recipes with cucumbers; the first, a veal-chicken-vegetable potage (Potage de Sante'), the second, a beef potage with either herbs or veggies.
There is a recipe for cucumber salad in "Recipes Tried and True," a document from Marion, Ohio, dated 1894.
In John Gerard's Herball, 1597, cucumber "taken in meats, is good for the stomack and other parts troubled with heat..." He also writes of a recipe with mutton, oatmeal and herbs (and cucumbers) to "cure all manner of sawce-flegme and copper faces." This to be eaten 3 meals a day. He writes of more curious uses for the cucumber, as well.
Thomas Dawson, in "The Good Huswife's Jewell", 1596, has a recipe for a "sallet" of herbes (by which I take it he meant leafy vegetables), cucumbers or lemons (at least, he writes "lemmans"), sugar, vinegar, oil, flowers, and hard-boiled eggs.
Cucumbers were grown in India 3,000 years ago, in Sumeria, Ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, 9th Century France (Charlemagne was a cucumber eater), early 1300's England (though they were later lost, and re-introduced in the mid-1500s), Spain at least by 1494 (the Spaniards transported them to Haiti that year via Chris Columbus), 1535 Montreal (according to Jacques Cartier), South Dakota by 1500 or so, New England at least by 1630, and reportedly in Ancient Thrace. Tzatziki was eaten by the Turks in the 1500s, and passed along to the Greeks; add that to your period cucumber dishes.
In all, a number of peoples have eaten cucumbers during periods covered by re-enactors; it is conceivable that this popular item might be eaten anywhere, since Jewish people have been eating them since Ancient Egypt, and as a student of history knows, they've been everywhere. Not to mention the world-spanning empires which grew them (Greek, Roman, Ottoman) would have spread their use, as well.

Неутешительный вывод - возможно еще в 13 веке в Англии люди могли наслаждаться соленым огурчиком, но потом огурцы "исчезли" и появились в Англии лишь в сер.15 в.Продвинутая Испания импортировала огурцы в 1494 году на Гаити( следует поблагодарить Колумба).

Сообщение отредактировал Griet - 5.10.2011, 15:30

To recreate the medieval period without compromise.(с)The Company of St. George
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сообщение 26.6.2007, 14:09
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На наш регион на 15 век огурцы были - везли с Востока и при этом считались фруктами а не овощами - подавали с медом.

переведены со старого форума Альянса
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сообщение 3.4.2008, 14:23
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г.Троицк, Красная Пахра, Москва.
Военно-историческая группа (XV):
Рота Св.Фомы

Репутация:   12  

b]Food and Drink in Medieval Poland: Rediscovering a Cuisine of the Past [/b]
by Maria Dembinska (Author), Magdalena Thomas (Translator)
Revised and Adapted by William Woys Weaver

The most telling proof of this is the early Polish documentation for cucumbers, as seeds have been found in Polish archaeological sites dating to the ninth century AD. Cucumbers are not the easiest vegetables to cultivate, yet they are one of the most prominent vegetables in the medieval Polish diet. Curiously, in the fourteenth century, they were almost always mentioned in connection with fruit, which seems to imply that they were consumed like apples, fresh during or after the meal. The royal accounts taken at Korczyn in 1389 stated this quire clearly: "to pears and cucumbers for her majesty's dinner and dessert." The cucumbers were evidently served with fresh pears, King Wtadystaw Jagietlo's favorite fruit.
The combination of cucumbers and honey must have been known by this time, too, for at least one reference from the same royal accounts at Korczyn has surfaced in connection with a dish made from cucumbers, pears, and honey (see recipe on page 153). The resulting mixture tastes very much like ripe melons. That cucumbers were treated like melons is evident from the fact that they were served with melons on occasion, as verified in the royal register for the Wislica garrison in 1414-72
Oddly, there are no references from the medieval period to pickled cucumbers, which we would expect, given that pickling them is a very old technique. We know that cabbage and even shredded turnips were pickled, so it is hard to imagine this not being common knowledge. In the sixteenth century, Mikoiaj Rej discussed salting cucumbers in such a way that would assume his readers well understood the entire process: "pickle cucumbers in salt, add some dill and sour cherry or oak leaves- the leaves make the pickles crisper." ".There is no mystery that we have here the famous Polish dill pickles, yet pickled cucumbers do not even appear as ingredients in the royal kitchen. The royal family ate sauerkraut, which only makes this absence of pickles all the more puzzling. It is possible that the cucumbers eaten in medieval Poland were distinctly different from the green warty type used later for pickling and illustrated in Leonhard Fuchs' De /listeria stirpium (1542). The seeds found in archaeological sites would not reveal this because the genus and species are most likely the same. However, the physical characteristics could be quite dissimilar.
An explanation may require going back in the history of the cucumber. Cucumbers originated in the Himalayan region and one of the oldest and most archaic sorts still cultivated there is the so-called Sikkim cucumber (Cucumis sativus, var. sikkimensis), also known as the Russian netted cucumber. This short season cucumber, or something like it, may have been known to medieval Poles, and it does not pickle well at any stage of development. It was grown in Russia and Western Asia well into the nineteenth century and in form resembles a small muskmelon with brown, netted skin. The fruit has white flesh and a melonlike flavor, hut the small, immature fruit, which would otherwise make decent cornichons, is extremely hitter. Perhaps the smooth-skinned types of cucumbers better suited to pickling — and therefore more valuable as a winter food —were not introduced into Poland until the late Middle Ages.

Сообщение отредактировал Griet - 5.10.2011, 15:31

To recreate the medieval period without compromise.(с)The Company of St. George
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сообщение 30.3.2012, 20:41
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г.Троицк, Красная Пахра, Москва.
Военно-историческая группа (XV):
Рота Св.Фомы

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Pears Stewed with Cucumbers and Fis
(Gruszki Duszone z OgBrkami i Fiami) *

This court dish, which was mentioned in the records of the royal garrison at
Kmnyn in 1389, is not just a compote. It is a conceit meant to ~mitatep oached
melon, doubtless somethzng stmilar to a casaba, and thwefore draws its inspiration
from Byzantium or the eastern Mediterranean. Afler the opening of trade with
Constantinople m the 9608, Byzantine goods and culinary ideas reached the
Polish royal court through overland trade routes from the Black Sea.

Put the cucumbers, figs, honey, cloves, cinnamon and 1 cup (250 ml)
of water in a stewpan. Cover and cook gently over medium-low heat
until the cucumbers are tender (about 20 minutes). Add the pears and
cover. Continue to cook the mixture for 5 minutes, or until the pears
are hot, then remove from heat. The cucumbers and pears should
have a similar twxture. Let the compote cool to room temperature,
then add the rosewater. Serve at room temperature either as a side
dish for a banquet or as a dessert with fresh cream. At the medieval
Polish table the cream would have been served from a small ewer.

4 cups (5011 g) cucumbers,
pared, seeded, amd diced
1 cup (1 75 g) driedjigs,
1 cup (2SO ml) honey
1/8 teaspoon ground cloyes
1/2 tearpoon ground cinnamon
4 cups (750 g) under-ripe
pears, pared, cored, and diced
1 tablespoon (1 5 mi) wsewater
fresh cream (optional)

Сообщение отредактировал Griet - 30.3.2012, 20:44

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История (XVIII)
Реконструкция (XVIII)
XIX век
История (Наполеоновские войны, 1789-1815)
Реконструкция (XIX)
Куплю / Продам
Книжная полка
Трактир и Будуар
Анонсы мероприятий
Ссылки по истории
Ссылки на Военно-исторические Форумы
Сайты Военно-исторических групп
Жалобная книга
История (остальной XIX век)
Галерея (XVIII)
Галерея (XIX)
Тихое место
Фотоконкурс. Жюри.
Редколлегия журнала "Реконструктор"
Рекрутское депо
Магазины в городах и странах
ВИ миниатюра
Этот день в истории
XVII век
Гражданская реконструкция XVII-XVIII-XIX вв.
Конюшня XVII-XVIII-XIX вв.
Реконструкция (XVII)
История (XVII)
Галерея (XVII)
Анонсы книжных новинок: военная история XVI-XIX вв.
Военно-историческая периодика
Гусарсккие посиделки 8-)
XV век
Архив 15, не трогать.
История (XV)
Ливинг-хистори проект
Помойка для Дениса
Реконструкция (XV)
Галерея (XV)
Средневековый быт
Развлечения в Средние века
Доспехи и вооружение
Исторические документы и артефакты
Средневековая кухня
Пограничная Крепость
Живая История военных действий
Оркомитет ПК
Север-Юг и Дикий Запад
Настольные игры
Орденский кирасирский полк
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