Льняная одежда: давайте разберемся Опции

[John Hockwood]

Друзья!
Помогите разобраться с вопросом о льняной верхней одежде в конце 15 века. Хочется чтобы она была, и вроде бы должна быть, но чо говорят источники?

Вот шоссы из Альпирсбаха, 1490-1529. Коричневая льняная саржа





Ну и та самая жилетка из Берна


Но она видимо носилась под жак (?)

Подскажите, что нам говорят письменные источники об использовании льна для верхней одежды?

Сообщение отредактировал Griet - 25.4.2011, 21:23

[Griet]

любопытно.
вот полная цитата из Middle English Dictionary: L.1 Hans Kurath(1970):

[quote:d656a8c5aa]* Item, lego Alicie Mynthy meam togam viridis coliris duplicatam cum vna tunicula, videlicet, a kyrtill de hwlyn.[/quote:d656a8c5aa]

Вот полный текст завещания с переводом на совр.английский из
Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society
Volume: 24
Publisher: Bristol, Eng. [etc.] The Society
http://www.archive.org/details/transactionsbris24bris

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/rec...2-pas&cid=-1#-1


[quote]WILL OF MARGERY HASTYNGES, I 4 1 3 A.D.

Jn dei no/;/i;/e Amen duodecimo die decembris Anno
do;;/i//i Milltsimo quadringentesimo terciodecimo ego Margeria
Hastyng« compos mentis mee in hu«c modu/// condo meuw
testamentu/// Jn primis lego animam meam deo omnipotenti
heate marie matri sue & omnibus Sanctis corpusq//f men;;/ ad
sepeliend///;/ in ecchsia p<n-ocliiali sancti Jacobi bristoll/V
coram alta cruce in dextera parte sepulture mariti mei jtnn
lego fabrics matric/s ecclesie Wigornie xijrf. Jtnn lego fabric*
ecclesie sancti Jacobi pro sepultura mea xxs. Jtnn lego Priori
siiucti Jacobi bristoll/V vjs. viij^f. Jtnn lego Capellano paro-
chiali eiusdem ecclesia xxd. [t«n lego do;;/mo Johanni
capellano meo xd. Jtnn lego clerico pwochiali dicte ecclrsie
xijd. Jtcm lego Conuentui ordinis fratru/// minora?;; bristoll/V
s. Jtem lego cuilibet Conuentui aliar///// trium ordinu/;/
fratrum mendicanciu/// bristollw ijs. v]d. Jtnn lego paupnibus
in pane distribuenda ad valorem. Is. Jtnn lego pyo cera lY.
omnib//s alijs necessarijs in obsequijs meis exsequendis circa
sepultura;;/ corporis mee xli. Jtnn lego Johanne filie mee mea;//
optima/;/ toga/// virid/'s coloris furrurat///// & meam optima;//
zonam argento stipat///;/ meum optimum ciphu/// argenti cum
coopntorio meu;;/ optimu;;/ ciphu/// de maserr cu;;/ coopn-torio
& optimum peluem cu;;/ lauacro Jtnn lego Nicholas Halewey
nlio Thome Halewey xiijs. & m]d. vnam peluem cu;// lauacro
vnu/// manutergiu;;/ & optimu/// lectu/// meu/// Jtnn lego
Thome Halewey iuniori xiijs. & liijflf. vnam peluem cu///
lauacro vnu/// manutergiu/// & secundum optima/// lectu/// cu;;/
le testir [tnn lego Johanni Halewey seniori xiijs. & iiij/L
vnam peluem cu;;/ lauacro & manutergio Jtnn lego Johanni
Halewey iuniori nlio Thome Halewey xiijs. & i'ujd. vnam
peluem cu;;/ lauacro Jtnn lego Johanne Brayne meam
secundam zonam stipat«/// argento & meu/// meliore/// annulu///
auri cu/// mea secunda optima patella Jtnn lego Thome
Brayne xxs. vnu/// ciphum argenti videlicet a plat pece duo
cokliaria argentea habendrt si intendit presbiterari & quando
celebrauerit nouam missam & si contingat ips/mi Thomam
obire citra celebracionew sue none misse extu//c lego & volo
quod prcdictus ciphus cum duob//s cokliarijs remaneant
Johanne Brayne matri sue Jtnn lego Elionore Wagwell
xxs. cum vna toga de cendry furrurabi & vna armulansa
viridw coloris Jtrm lego Edithe Welle vjs. & viijrf. mea.ni
togani blodij coloris cum furrura agnicula [size=18]Jtnn lego Alicie
Mynty meant togani viridw coloris duplicate/// cum vna
tunicula videlicet a kirtill de hwlyn[/size:d656a8c5aa] Jtnn lego Alicie Moret
vnu/// coop^rtoriu/// lecti vnum par linthiaminu/// vnam peluem
& vna/// ollam enea/// Jt<?m lego Johanne Portbury vnu*
coopertoriu/// lecti virid/s coloris vna;// par linthiaminu/// duo
candelabra de latoun & vna/// olla/// eneam cum xiijs. cum ad
matrimonii!/// prmenmt J tern lego Matilda s^uient/ mee
xiijs. & iiijtf. vnum coopn'toriu/// lecti de worstede blodij
coloris & vnu/// candelabru/// cunt ad matrimoniu/// peruenerit
Jtnn lego Johrt////i Wagwell xxs. Jtnn lego Henrico Harsfeld
capellano vnu/// ciphu/// argenti precio xiijs. & viiji. Jtmi lego
Wilk'lmo filio johannis Wilcokes xs. & vnum coopertoriu///
lecti Jtnn lego Joha»rai Tanner vjs. & viijrf. Jtem lego
Agnetz Powke vnam maxima/// patellam cu/// tripote Jtnn
lego Henrico Portbury xld. Jtmi lego Thome Halewey pro
suo labore in exsequend///// testamentu/// meu/// xls. Jtnn lego
Thome Powke pro suo labore xls. Residuu/// vero omniu///
honor///// meortint non legatory/// debitis meis solutis do et lego
Thome Halewey & Johanne vxori suo filie mee Huius autem
testamenti mei & vltime voluntatis mee ordino facio &
constituo Thoma;« Halewey meu/// principale/// executorem
cV Johanne/// vxore/// eius dicti testamenti coexecutricem illon////-
que facio supn'uisorem Thomam Powke vt ipsi deu/// pr^oculis
habentes presens testamentu/// nieum compleant cu/// effectu
Jn cuius rei testimonium huic testamento meo sigillum meum
apposui Datum bristoll/V & consignat///// die & Anno supradictis.

Probate before John Weston, clerk, Commissary general of
Thomas, bp. Worcester, in the parish church of St. James,
Bristol. 14 October (1414).[/quote]


А вот перевод:

[quote]Probate of Will; Margery Hastyng'. P/AS/D/NA 35 [1414; 1413]

Former reference: (178)

Contents:
October 14; December 12
To be buried in the parish church of S. James before the high cross, in the right side of her husband's grave.

To the mother church of Worcester, 12d.

To the church of S. James, 20s. for her burial. To the Prior, 6s. 8d.

To the parish chaplain, 20d. To Sir John, her chaplain, 40d. To the parish clerk, 12d.

To the convent of the Friars Minor, 10s. To each convent of the three other orders of Friars Mendicant, 2s. 6d.

To the poor, in bread to be distributed, up to 50s. For candles and all other necessaries at her burial, £10.

To her daughter Joan, her best green furred cloak; her best girdle studded with silver; best silver cup and cover; best cup (de maser) and cover; and best basin and ewer.

To Nicholas Halewey, son of Thomas, 13s. 4d.; a basin and ewer; a towel; and her best bed.

To Thomas Halewey the younger (minori), 13s. 4d.; a basin and ewer; a towel; and the second-best bed with the tester.

To John Halewey the elder, 13s. 4d.; a basin and ewer; and a towel.

To John Halewey the younger, son of Thomas, 13s. 4d. and a basin and ewer.

To Joan Brayne, her second-best girdle studded with silver; best gold ring; and second-best bowl.

To Thomas Brayne, 20s.; a silver cup, viz. a plat pece; and two silver spoons: if he intends to take holy orders, and when he celebrates his first Mass. If he dies before his first Mass, the cup and spoons are to revert to his mother Joan.

To Elionor Wagwell', 20s.; an ashen-coloured furred cloak; and a green cloak.

To Edith Welle, 6s. 8d.; and a blue cloak lined with lambswool.

To Alice Mynty, a green lined cloak and a woollen kirtill' (de hwlyn').

To Alice Moret, a bedcover; a pair of sheets; a basin; and a cooking-pot.

To Joan Portbury, a green bedcover; a pair of sheets; two latten candlesticks; and a cooking-pot; with 13s., when she comes to marry.

To Maud her servant, 13s. 4d.; a blue worsted bedcover; and a candlestick; on her marriage.

To John Wagwell, 20s.

To Henry Harffeld' the chaplain, a silver cup, price 13s. 8d.

To William son of John Wilcok', 10s. and a bedcover. To John Tanner, 6s. 8d.

To Agnes Powke, a large pan and a trivet.

To Henry Portbury, 40d.

To Thomas Halewey, for his labour as her exor, 40s;

and to Thomas Powke [the same].

Residue of goods, after her debts and legacies have been paid, to Thomas Halewey and Joan his wife, appointed co-extrix.

Thomas Powke to be supervisor.
Dated: Bristoll', the day and year aforesaid. Note of sealing.

Endorsed: Probate before John Weston', clerk, Commissary of Thomas, Bishop of Worcester, in S. James' church, 14 October of the year within-written. [This must be a mistake for 1414].
[A] particulars and date [of Will].[/quote][/color][color=darkred]

Итак, у нас есть оригинал и перевод:

[quote]Item, lego Alicie Mynthy meam togam viridis coliris duplicatam cum vna tunicula, videlicet, a kyrtill de hwlyn.

Jtnn lego Alicie Mynty meant togani viridw coloris duplicate/// cum vna
tunicula videlicet a kirtill de hwlyn.

To Alice Mynty, a green lined cloak and a woollen kirtill' (de hwlyn')

Также завещаю Алисе Минт мой зеленый плащ с подкладкой, а вместе с ним туникулу, то есть шерстяной киртл из hwlyn(голландского полотна?)

[/quote]

Почему в переводе - шерсть?

Могли ли переводчики ошибиться?Могли они ошибочно перевести по созвучию - hwlyn-woolen?

И еще остается вопросом, если это действительно лен, то какое переплетение у него было - ведь голландское полотно - это очень обобщеное понятие, так же как и фастиан. Могло быть полотняного, а могло и саржевого, что дает совершенно иной эффект при носке.

Сообщение отредактировал Griet - 23.10.2013, 15:35